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Tuesday, February 23, 2010

Because I said so

MJH wrote an interesting post defending parents using the term "Because I said so" to their children. I love it when MJH writes his thoughts on parenting. I find that I often gain a new perspective and often get new ideas on how to approach my own children. In all honesty, after reading the post I initially thought things like, "well that makes sense" or "I never thought of it like that before, but sure." However, as I thought about it more and more, I disagree with him more and more. Sorry, MJH. =)

Let me start off with saying that neither my husband nor I remember our parents using the term "Because I said so." I asked my sister, though, and she does. She said that our mom used to say that a lot, followed by "if I'm wrong I'll pay for counseling" when she was a teenager. My sister was more... let's say "rebellious" than I was. I only point that out because I feel like this is not a "I'm not going to be like my parents" reaction on my part.

I'm not going to approach the God-side of MJH's post. I don't want to open that can of worms (smile), but I did want to comment on my thoughts on the topic in general, because I do think it's an interesting one to discuss.

MJH essentially says that he uses "Because I said so" in situations where he feels like his children can not possibly understand the reasons or consequences for something. I agree with him that a young child (I'll obviously use my almost three year old daughter as my reference point) can not understand *ALL* the consequences of something like making Mommy or Daddy late for work. However, that does not mean they're incapable of understanding that their is a consequence for them not getting ready quickly.

If we were to bluntly end any discussion with Ellie with "Get your shoes on right now because I said so" then I'm sure we'd have a much more frustrated Ellie. Instead, we try to explain the consequences in a way that is relevant to her. "If you don't put your shoes on quickly then Mommy's not going to have time to read you books" or even "You're taking too long to get ready. It's taking away Mommy's energy, which means she won't be able to play blocks with you later." Those are consequences that she understands. Granted this requires a little more planning on our part. We have to get ready in time to allow us to read her one book at school before leaving. I think that's fair. She does something nice for us (which results in our lives being more enjoyable) which makes us want to do something nice for her (which results in her life being more enjoyable).

She may not understand all the consequences of making us late for work. She may not understand the effect that has on family vacations or the amount of time that Mommy has to stay at work. But she does understand that if she takes a long time getting ready then Mommy does not have the time or the energy to read her a book, or play games when she gets home.

There is definitely something to the stalling thing that MJH mentioned. Ellie constantly comes up with ways to stall, but we just try to come up with consistent consequences for that. Fewer books or no books. No energy to play Ellie's favorite game. Mommy doesn't have the energy to do bedtime so Daddy needs to instead. Things of that nature, but they're all consequences that Ellie understands because it effects those things she holds most dear. We know this works because there are days when Ellie wakes up and exclaims, "Hurry! Hurry! We want to read books, right Mommy?" Right.

MJH said that him not explaining himself to his children is similar to other relationships. One being his relationship with God (I've already said I'm not going to touch that one right now), but the other example he gave was with his boss at work. I disagree with his simplification of his relationships. His boss most likely never tells him "Do this because I said so," even if he may not understand all the reasons or consequences that his boss is aware of. Instead, his boss most likely simplifies the situation in terms that MJH can understand. Something more like "You need to do this in order for us to meet our goal. If you fail then the project will run out of money or time." Similarly, even though MJH does not bombard his boss with all the details of something that he understands better, it's doubtful he'd ever say "Sir, I'm doing it this way because I said so." Instead, he'll say something like "I need to take the time write the program like this because will be more user-friendly." That's something his boss would understand even if he does not know the details of the software MJH is responsible for.

Our relationships with our children are similar. I agree that they can not understand the big picture. They shouldn't have to. They're too busy being the little kids that they are. However, I feel like closing the topic with a "because I said so" sells the children short on what they *CAN* understand. I think that the assumption that a parent is all-knowing relative to the children is a faulty assumption. It never fails to amaze me how much Ellie really does understand. If I based all my conversations with her on what I assume a three year old understands, I would never be amazed. Not to mention, Ellie would probably be less enlightened and more annoyed.

I think the challenge as a parent, is not to simply not explain things but to put them in a context such that they can be understood. It's simply just too easy to sell your kids short on how much they're capable of understanding. It is our job as parents to put in every effort to explain things to our kids so that they can better understand, and thus interact with, the world around them.

As for the God side of the argument, I feel like comparing the relationship that God has with his people to the relationship between parents and children is unfair. God may very well know with absolute certainty what any individual can and can't understand, but we do not know anything with absolute certainty about what our kids can or cannot understand. Sorry. I tried to stay away from that, but I couldn't help it.

11 comments:

mjh said...

Thanks for the comments, Niffer!

Based on your comments and some of the comments that I got on facebook, it's becoming apparent that I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I meant.

I certainly did NOT mean to suggest that explanation to children provides no value. But rather that we need *not* treat our toddlers like teenagers. The explanations that we give to the toddlers may very well be sufficient with “because I said so”. I don’t think that this explanation is sufficient for a peer. And in between those two points, the explanations given ought to reflect the relative changes from child to adult.

My point is that I think that parents do it backwards. They offer their children far too much control early and gradually increase that control as their children’s behavior deteriorates. I’d rather do it the other way round: keep control early on the justification that too much freedom for a toddler is a huge net negative for them, and gradually release that control. Ultimately, I want my 18 year old to have almost all the control over their own life, so that when they get to college, the transition will be smooth. And I think that process needs to be a smooth blended border. Not one with a bright edge. Here’s an example: my 4 year-old should not have the freedom to walk up and down our street. My 7 year-old should be able to manage the cul-de-sac we live on, but not the rest of the neighborhood. My 9 year-old should be able to handle all of our neighborhood, an my 12 year-old all of that and the adjoining neighborhood. There is a similar level of gradual response for explanation, with “because I said so” on one end of childhood, and “I’m in a time crunch, can I fully explain later” on the other.

As far as my characterization of my relationship with God, my boss and my kids. I don't mean to suggest that it's as strident as it seems you took it. My boss never says, "Because I said so" in those words. But there are lots of things she simply doesn't explain to me. So the effect is the same.

So perhaps I should adjust my post. Because it seems to be read by people as a lot more strident and without the nuance that I intended.

Thanks for the feedback.

mjh said...

Also, I read your post to my wife and oldest as we were watching the Olympics. My oldest wanted me to point out that the things you mentioned as ways to get compliance out of your children, we do. In fact, he said, "I don't understand why she's disagreeing with you. You say almost those exact same things to us all the time."

By the way, be careful, Niffer. Those things you're saying sound remarkably like Love & Logic.

Salina said...

Just wanted to let you know that I have an award on my photo blog for you (Twice As Many Moments). Thank you for all the comments you leave on my blogs...it reminds me that people are reading and enjoying them.

Niffer said...

Hahahha, MJH! I have to laugh at the Love and Logic comment because I thought something similar when I read your original post. I thought "That doesn't sound like MJH. It's not Love and Logic enough."

Sorry to take your post so stringent. Don't you hate it when typed words end up not coming across quite as you intended them to? I'll comment again on your blog.

Salina said...

This is an interesting topic and my initial reaction is that the phrase 'Because I said so' is so far away from my natural instinct to parent. I'm thinking about responding on my own blog about this. Great dialogue!

mjh said...

Salina: There's part of me that would rather explain myself to my toddler. In one sense it's easier. I like the thought that my eloquence will motivate my children to act.

But, it *never* works out that way. And it takes a lot of discipline on my part to say, "because I said so" without anger or frustration, when I'd rather give them a laundry list of crap that's going to happen if they don't get in the car right this moment.

Now, once their in the car - and tied to a chair (*) - I can wax poetic about what would happen if they hadn't complied. Mostly, they'd rather not hear it. Mostly they'd rather use the time before hand as a stall tactic and when we have time, they don't care. Which tells me a metric ton about what they really thought about the question of "why".

In any case, my point is that I find it harder to calmly say, "because I said so" then to explain everything to a 4 year old who a) won't get it anyway and b) doesn't really care.

(*) I don't remember who the comedian is that says that seatbelts are the greatest invention ever. You are legally required to use them to tie your kid to a chair! This same comedian wishes there were sofa belts, and table chair belts, and bed belts which he was legally required to strap into.

Niffer said...

Oh, MJH. So sad. It appears as though we disagree after all! =)

Parents should not offer too much control to a child and should hand over the appropriate level of responsibility for the child's age. Agreed.

Where we disagree is this particular example. I still contest that "Because I said so" is unfair to the child. I am certain it would be more difficult on me to say that to Ellie than it would be to explain things to her. However, maybe we're just talking about 1. differences in her personality from those of your boys or 2. I have more time and energy to deal with one child prolonging a situation than you do with four.

The comedian skit sounds funny. I'll have to try to search for it.

Anonymous said...

From MJH's quote: "But, it *never* works out that way. And it takes a lot of discipline on my part to say, "because I said so" without anger or frustration, when I'd rather give them a laundry list of crap that's going to happen if they don't get in the car right this moment."

This must be a "all kids are different" scenario. My kid never ceases to amaze me at the depth of her understanding of things. I would be short changing her to just assume she doesn't get what I am saying. A couple real-life examples...

Me: Stop kicking my seat.
Kid: Why?
Me: It makes it hard for me to drive.
Kid: (why continues ad nauseum)

Next day:
Kid: Mommy, don't put hand on Daddy's seat. Makes it hard for him to drive.
Mommy: Oh, sorry.
Kid: That be not safe. That be sad.

(Would she have pieced this together if I had not taken the time to give her some explanation she could understand?)
---
Me: Don't push the other kids.
Kid: Why?
Me: If they don't like it, they won't be your friend.
Kid: That would be sad. They my favorite friend.
---

Sorry, but I think "Because I said so" is a parenting cop out, to be used only in rare circumstances. Maybe if you know you would lose your temper by explaining. Perhaps your kids are different than mine, or they just like asking for the sake of pushing your buttons.

Also, per your original post. I don't think this is how God treats us at all. I don't take every Bible story literally. I take it very much as God's response to our "Why" question in terms we can understand. I feel like it is a tome of collections of answers to the silly "Why" questions us "kids" ask every day of our lives.

-M

Julie said...

I love your point that they are capable of so much more then we realize...
I am someone when I read a reasonable point and explanation I can agree completely. And, when I read an opposing point, again I totally agree. Yours and MJH's post are a perfect example :) There is a time and place for "because I said so" and a time and place for a full on explanation. I tend to DO LOTS of explanations because then I feel it SAVES time in the future and shows my respect for them as a person --- because with my oldest he doesn't need the why he starts making mature decisions based on previous explanations I have made... but I will admit it sometimes is a problem that he feels entitled to a WHY... Which when that happens I could use more of MJH's advice.

I liked reading these discussions...

mjh said...

Niffer,

Like I said on my blog, I’m not afraid of disagreement. But I don’t think we disagree as much as you think.

My claim: it’s ok to say “because I said so”. Does this mean I think it’s *always* ok? No. I think it’s ok more frequently said for my younger kids than my older kids. I also think that some of my kids handle it better than others of my kids (i.e. I agree with Anonymous’ assertion that it depends on the kid.) Additionally, when I’m stressed about being on time, I tend to expect unquestioning compliance a lot more often. And I think it’s ok that my children experience this. I will not be the only one in life that demands this of them.

Now, if you think that it’s *never* ok to say “because I said so”, then yes, in fact we do disagree. I wrote the post in reaction to someone who seemed to feel that it was never ok to say that. That is what I was reacting to.

As to Anonymous’ point about whether or not God says this to us, I definitely think he explains things to us. Just not all the time. There are some things for which he expects obedience. And offers absolutely nothing in response to “why?”

Niffer said...

MJH, you're probably right that we agree more than the typed words seem to indicate. If you were to tell me that you try to avoid using the term "because I said so" most of the time, then I think I'm with you. However, I can not think of a single moment when I used those words. On the other hand, I CAN think of moments when I've used that attitude, where my actions say "because I said so" even if my words do not. Is that different? Who knows.